March 10


Ep 44 | Susie Pettit: Boundaries, Expectations, and Manuals

By Kim Strobel

March 10, 2021

Susie Pettit has been helping women live lives they love for over 10 years. She is the host of the podcast Love Your Life Show and owner of the Wellness Company Strength: Mind & Body, LLC. 

Susie is passionate about helping women live lives that feel as good on the inside as they look on the outside. She spent more than half her life living a life she did not love; as a people pleaser, codependent perfectionist, trying desperately to win an award for ‘Martyr of the Year’.

Listen On: iTunes | Google Play | Stitcher | Spotify

“Anything you judge is a reflection of your own insecurity.” Susie Pettit

What You’ll Learn From this Episode:
  • Being raised by my controlling and manipulative parents and building a life based on their standards, not her own identity
  • How she stopped looking for external validation
  • How people pleasers are actually people deceivers
  • The thought-model around the think-feel-act loop that gives you control in the most challenging moments in your life.
  • How to get out of your own way during challenging communication with others
  • The expectations we place on ourselves
  • The instruction manuals we are all adhering to
  • Creating boundaries that honor our values
  • Stop taking everything so personally!

Helpful Links

Check out the episode on Youtube as well.

About Susie Pettit

Susie Pettit has been helping women live lives they love for over a decade. She is a certified Life + Wellness Coach and a mom of three teenage sons.

Susie is passionate about helping women live lives that feel as good on the inside as they look on the outside. She spent more than half her life living a life she did not love. Luckily, she hit rock bottom and now has the breadth of experience to teach first hand about setting healthy boundaries, beating your inner critic, conscious parenting, and how to use mindfulness-based tools to beat overwhelm and anxiety. She uses two foundational frameworks: Her 5 Pillars of Wellness and the Thought Model.

About Kim

Kim Strobel is Chief Happiness Officer at Kim Strobel Live Events and Retreats. She is a teacher, consultant, motivational speaker, happiness coach, and a mission-minded person whose passion helps others overcome their fears and discover their joy!

You can follow Kim’s journey on Instagram at @KimStrobelJoy, and in the free private, She Finds Joy Facebook community.


Kim Strobel 00:12 

Welcome to the she finds joy show podcast. I'm so happy you hit play today and you're joining us from all over the world. We have people in Australia and England and Ireland and all throughout the United States and Mexico who join us every week. And so I'm super excited. I'm interviewing someone today. Her name is Susie potete. Now Susie, I say that right? 

Susie Pettit 00:36 

pet it like pet it. 

Kim Strobel 00:38 

It Okay, so I'm actually going to do a retake on that. Hold on. Yeah, nine. Like I so it's pet. Say it again. 

Susie Pettit 00:46 

pet it like you pet it. Go 

Kim Strobel 00:49 

pet it. Okay, pet it. And is it bar Oh, Lu. 

Susie Pettit 00:53 

Barolo is not a part of my name anymore. So 

Kim Strobel 00:54 

let's leave that out. Oh, good. That makes my job easier, 

Susie Pettit 00:57 

which causes people such anks because it's like, I don't have a middle name. And they're like 

Kim Strobel 01:02 

that. But oh, that's super easy. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a retake. Here we go. Hello, everyone. And thank you for joining us on the show today. I'm so happy that you've pushed play. It's so exciting for me to see that we have people from all around the world that they're listening to this podcast. And I want you to know I see you in Australia. I see you in England. I see you in Ireland, all across the United States, Canada, Mexico. And I'm just super excited when I pull up my little podcast analytics. And I see that people all over are joining us for this show. today. I want to introduce you to Susie Pettit. Susie has been working and helping women live lives they love for over 10 years. She's the host of the podcast, love your life show. And the owner of the wellness company strength, mind and body. She is a certified life and wellness coach and get this she's a mama to three teenage boys. Oh, Susie, welcome to the show. 

Susie Pettit 02:11 

I'm actually going to correct that because I have five sons. But that's part of the joy of my story. I have three biological children and then even I have five sons and they're now aged 16 to 20. Actually, my my oldest son's birthday is this week, so I think he'll be turning 24 but two of my boys are in Australia. So for your Australian listeners, I have a special 




I know 

Kim Strobel 02:37 

our two of them your stepchildren? Yes, my son My gosh. So you are surrounded by men Do you at least have like a female dog or cat? 

Susie Pettit 02:47 

I've had I had I grew up with three sisters. And so I've had enough females in my life and I work with middle school girls at times. 


So yes, I'm good. 

Susie Pettit 02:56 

But it's it's it is I am definitely surrounded by boys and and men and I just love it. So you know, not at all. But that's my husband is my Australian husband. I am just constantly that is one of the benefits of divorce. The kids are like, Okay, we got rid of because my x is now with a woman who's a great Baker. And my ex and I were both sort of functional cooks. Like we just we got 


food on the table. 

Susie Pettit 03:24 

Now my husband is an amazing chef. I mean, he just bakes up amazing things. And then our cooks up I guess is this Yeah, I don't even know the terminology. Yeah. My ex girlfriend 

does all sorts of baking. So the kids I'm like, Yeah, you're 

Kim Strobel 03:38 

That's fantastic. Yeah, you know, I always worried because I have a son Spencer. And I have three older step kids, Drew Sydney and Claire. And I was like, you know, like, the kids are never going to be like, gosh, Mom, I'm coming home from college. Do you? Do you think you could make this meal? I just missed this meal of yours. I'm like, my kids never gonna say 

Susie Pettit 03:59 

no, that's not what I'm here for. That's part of dictation. That's part of what we can talk about. I know what a good mom does. It's like that's not that's not how 

Kim Strobel 04:08 

I really like I have other skills that I think are just as worthy as being able to cook a good meal for my son. So I love this because you and I are going to talk about lots of things we're going to talk about, you know, this idea of boundaries and expectations. And I was I was telling Susie before we started the show, I was like you know, one of the things that I get told a lot and I my mom I sometimes I cringe because I'm like, I don't ever want to hurt my mom's feelings but she's such an important person in my life. And I'm like if she's listening to this podcast, she's kind of learned like Kim just throws it all out there and knows how perfectly imperfect she is as well. But like my mom, she's been saying this thing to me Susie because you were asking me about confidence and you wanted to talk to me a little bit about that on your own show. And how did I get confidence? And I said, my mom just kind of like, she sometimes says to me, you've just really changed Kim. And I sometimes feel like she says it in a way that's like, I just don't really know about this new version of you. And when I asked her what she means by that, she's like, Well, you know, you just, you just, you just say it like it is, and you're not afraid to stand up to someone. And really, it's that I think it's that maybe sometimes she thinks I'm just a little too bold. And, and I think, you know, from her standpoint, she was raised in a generation where like, you know, women were really kind of told to not be conflictive and not have strong opinions and stay in their lane and all of that. And then you said, Oh, my, well, let me talk to you about this Kim Strobel, because I call these manuals, right, Miss Suzy? 


Yes, exactly. Well, I 

Susie Pettit 06:00 

do I want to speak to the point first, I'm like, Where's the old Kim and oh, gee, Kim, you've changed because I got that a lot too. Like, where's the old Suzy and, and so much of that is rooted in, in this, you know, competence. Like as us and that in my I'll speak from my own personal experience. When I was growing up, I was raised with a family where it was very much like I was not good enough. And I needed to, to do do do to receive the love. Like if I got the A then everything was fine. If I, you know, was quiet and smiling and happy, then everything. But if I showed an emotion, it's like, oh, Susie turn that frown upside down. And let's just and so I learned very early that if I acted in a certain way, I got the love and affection that I craved desperately, as a young child and I took that with me into my young adulthood. And so sometimes when then in my middle adulthood, people were like, Where's the old Suzy? I was like, yeah, that old Suzy was not it was like this shell of a person that was a people pleaser, or what I like to call people deceiver. Because I was very much like, you know, dancing, this little dance, oh, they like me to be social and, you know, drink the wine of buku. You know, book club, so Okay, I'll do that. Versus like, actually, I'm not comfortable with that. I like going to bed at 930. And I don't even like wine, you know, but not feeling comfortable in myself to say that. And so I would do things in a people pleasing way, where I was actually deceiving these people, because they think they're seeing the real Suzy. So then years later, it's like, where that Suzy go, I'm like, Yeah, okay, I broke that shell off. And, and it might be bolder, and I might it is braver, for sure. But it feels it feels wonderful. That's where we get to this living a life we love or the joy 

Kim Strobel 07:48 

It is, isn't it? Because I think like when I look back at it, because I'm not gonna lie, like sometimes when it's not just my mom, other people will say like, you've really changed. And then I start to think, oh, it is the other version of me better or nicer? Or, like, what what, what does that mean? And do I need to rethink myself here and then I think, Holy smokes, I love life so much better now than I did 10 and 15 and 20 years ago, like, I I could I don't think I could go back because like, yeah, you know, it feels really good. You know, of course, we are always going to self check ourselves. But you know, if you're right, that is the road that the realness and the authenticity is the road to freedom, right? 

Susie Pettit 08:39 

It feels and I've lived both ways. So I know, this feels so much better. And I also know that 

relationships change, and sometimes, you know, they expire. And I know, you know that there are some of those people in my life who said, Susie, you've changed, and it was easy, you know, when you have that inner voice, it's like, oh, maybe they like to be better that way. They probably did. You know, you're being that like, you know, how they want you to be or how, you know, whatever, then it's much easier for them when you're not sort of pushing them or and, and, like all right, well, you know, moving on that that relationship is expired. What can I learn from it? And and it's 

Kim Strobel 09:17 

isn't it? Don't we sometimes just need to maybe give people permission to let a relationship expire. Let's talk about that a minute because I think that women in particular hold on to a lot of guilt when it comes to that. And so why is it okay Susie, for us to say you know what, this wasn't or isn't it's not going to be a lifelong friendship and I can take the gifts that it was at the time but it's no longer something that lifts me up in my life. 

Susie Pettit 09:49 

Right? Well, and I do it is it comes from a place of confidence and comfort with yourself. That you're okay you know, that that you showing up as the new you or whatever, you know, the more true you is, is okay. And that that relationship served you, you know, I, you said something about your mom that I'm not sure if you've said exactly this, but this is what I heard that, you know, you felt a little bit of discomfort set, like calling her out on her behaviors are saying that she had said that and and for me, it's always this, like acceptance that people are doing the best they can you know, your mom when she's saying that isn't saying it like, Oh, I'm gonna try to damage Kim psyche here, you 


know? Right? Yeah, 

Susie Pettit 10:32 

yeah. And, and then it's our job to reflect with kindness. So it's not like, you know, your mom of today isn't that mom that said that, or whatever she's doing the best she can. And when we can look at it more through that lens of everyone's out there trying to do the best they can, we can have a little more freedom, like, Okay, and now it's time to move on. So that friend that you had from high school, that, you know, how many years ago was that, or even if you're in your 20s, you know, I don't know how old your listeners are. But it's this, 

that friend you had from high school, if now you're feeling this guilt of, you know, oh, I need to still call her to go out or Oh, I you know, she doesn't have any other friends. So I need to call I need to text I need to, it's, it's helpful to look at that sort of behavior. And, and that process, I, I use a thought model and all of my coaching and all of my work and all of my relationships in and looking at, you know, we think thoughts, feel feelings, and then take actions that have consequences. So it's a think, feel act consequence. And when I'm when I hear from people, they're feeling guilt, you know, then it's like, Okay, what are you thinking to feel that guilt? What do you because, you know, the external circumstance of you have a friend from high school is not necessarily causing the guilt. It's your thoughts, you're thinking about that. So you're thinking, she has no friends, I need to be her friend. So you feel guilt? What is the action you take? Well, then you keep being her friend, even though you're not being authentic, you're feeling you know, regret when you're there, maybe you're a little pissy because you're, you know, so your action is you're continuing that friendship. And then the result is, interestingly, she doesn't have any friends, because you're feeding that void for her. Whereas what, what when we get into more adulthood, and we're like, Okay, 


I'm actually 

Susie Pettit 12:18 

not helping her, I'm enabling her. Like, if you're not there, if you're not answering her texts, if you're not returning her calls, if you're, you know, doing it in a way that feels authentic and kind to you not just suddenly ghosting the person, but you know, being honest and saying, Yeah, actually, I'm not interested in lunch this weekend, or that's not going to work for me, or, you know, she's like, do you want to Xyz and you don't, and you just say no, actually, I'm going to spend this day, you know, with my husband, to be a little more authentic, she's going to then feel disappointment, possibly. And that's hard. But that's a human emotion to feel. And then what might she do, she might reach out to someone else, she might find a friend that's better suited to her. And that's, you know, that's sort of that that arc of discomfort that life brings that we, you know, have this moment, and then we have to go through that discomfort for the group. So, it's, 

Kim Strobel 13:11 

it's really about, like, I love that you're bringing this up, because this happens to be something that I'm currently dealing with is. So we have some friends, and there's, and 

they're fairly new friends. And we like them. Because you know, they have similar interests when it comes to their kids and our kids. And they, we enjoy a lot of the same things. And we have fun together. But there's like this other layer that's been coming out, which is like you do for them, but they can't respond to your text messages when you reach out. Or 

they say like, I'm just not good at responding to text messages. And so, you know, after you've texted them four or five times, and there's no response, like it that doesn't sit well with me, you know? And then they say, Well, I'm just not good at responding to text messages. And I think, 


Well, you know, 

Kim Strobel 14:04 

it's actually one of my values. Like, I feel like a good solid friendship means you don't just get to choose when you need me and I respond, but I can't get you to respond. And so like I'm having that debate right now, even in my mind, Susie, when you when you're talking about this idea of thoughts, feelings, actions and consequence. It's like, Oh, I really like having friends who have a lot of similarities, but like, I'm really struggling with this misalignment, I guess, in values is maybe what I would call it. So I'm curious, what are your thoughts about that? on that, Susie, 

Susie Pettit 14:40 

I think this is lovely. And you've led us right into manuals and expectations and boundaries, because again, it's all about our thoughts about this. So your manual for friendship, sounds like you have so let me back up. When I talk about manuals I talked about we have different relationships in our lives. So we have the you know, we have a mother and we have maybe a story And we have a husband and we have a friend. And then it's like, we have these internal manuals that we get either from society or maybe our own background with parents. And what I mean by that is like, you think of a manual in terms of putting together a dresser with IKEA, you know, you have an instruction manual, we carry these little manuals for relationships. So to me, what I'm hearing is your manual for friendship includes, you should return texts on time. Like, that's a thought that you're thinking and when you think that thought you're feeling discomfort when she doesn't return the text. And then you're, you know, your action might be to text her back or to feel resentment or, you know, yeah, cycle Yeah. And so that's where the manual perfectly leads into boundaries and, and sort of expectations because I find, when we don't have you 

know, boundaries lead to healthy relationships. And when we don't have boundaries, or we haven't, like paused and come up with a boundary, we're going to feel we're going to land in that land of BS, which I call is, like bitter and sour, or resentful, you know, and just be like, Well, why aren't they returning my texts? And so, you know, one way to do that is to say, you know, first of all, for you to get clear with how quickly you're returning texts, like, are you returning in them? And you're thinking, Hey, I am going by the manual, a friendship girl, like, I return your texts in the same day you sent it or in the same hour? And why are you not reciprocating? So she has its it, she has her own reasons about text. And it's that like you getting clear that you're responding in alignment with your values. So to you, you're thinking you want to respond to texts in a timely manner. So you respond to the text. Also, keeping in mind, throw out the manual, she's gonna do her so. So it's this like friendship, and it gets deeper if it's more of like a mother or a son relationship where it says unconditional love, like, Can you accept her as a friend, as someone who does not text in a way that you think is okay? If the answer is yes, then great. If the answer is no, then great. Like both ways. It's like, if you get to make sort of a clear, drama free decision, instead of thinking, you know, Oh, my gosh, this woman making it about you somehow, like, this woman isn't texting me, because she doesn't respect me. And, you know, yeah, woman is completely disorganized. She doesn't know her phone is or she's completely like living her life. And she's out riding horses, and she's not text, you know, there are many different thoughts, we could think about it, but we usually go to this negative. And so the boundary there, you know, it doesn't nessus boundaries, you don't necessarily have to say to someone, what I like, when I think about boundaries, I think about they are, you know, they are sort of instructions for the people in our lives for how we will be treated. And then they have a consequence. So you don't necessarily, you know, I don't need to walk down the street and tell people like, if you punch me, I will call the police. So I don't need to tell everyone, my boundaries, I can have that as a boundary. And you can be assured that if someone punches me, I'm going to call the police. So for your friend, you can have sort of a boundary like I will not be, you know, I like getting texted 24 hours before making plans. So like, maybe your boundary is like I will not be coming over for dinner if you don't give me 24 hour notice on my text, or you are no longer invited for it. You know, if you tell Yeah, that's 

Kim Strobel 18:26 

Yeah. Because you know, it's like, when she needs something from me, then she is 

Susie Pettit 18:33 

right in the text. But 

Kim Strobel 18:35 

then when it's time for me to reach out and be like, Hey, does this work? or How did that go? Or what was zero? Nothing ever. Five days later, 10 days later. So like what I guess you're saying is like, do I communicate that frustration with her? 

Susie Pettit 18:56 

I so I love delivering things sort of with kindness and grace are my two words that I go to. I love it. Yeah. If it's something like you are inviting them over for dinner on Friday, and it's Monday, I would say, you know, we would love to have you over for dinner on Friday. If you can let us know by Tuesday. Like in your mind, you're thinking, Okay, her manual, she needs some deadlines. So if she hasn't told you by Tuesday, then she's no longer invited. And you can in your mind, you're just like, She's not coming. Like that's just and if she texts on Thursday, it's like, oh, sorry, I asked for Tuesday. That's not gonna work. That's you upholding your boundary? You don't have to say it with like, you she devil, you know? 




You did that like 

Susie Pettit 19:40 

oh, okay, no, sorry. Like this. That doesn't work for me. You know, I needed some advance warning. I'm not just gonna throw everything together today because if she texted Thursday, that she's coming Friday, and then what sometimes happens in these like giving and receive you know, so it sounds like you're giving, giving, giving and she's she's certainly happy with the taking 


Yes, but 

Susie Pettit 20:01 

once you are asking her to give, she's like, you know, vacant and gone. So when you're doing that, you know, if you then on Thursday, you're like running out to the store and you're like preparing the menu, and you're definitely gonna be bitter and resentful. And in that land. Yeah. Yeah. is, you know, I, the question as to whether you say something to her ahead of time, it could, you know, it's almost like you can set the boundary. And if she upholds the boundary, then great. You know, if she doesn't, then it is that like, oh, sorry, I asked for you to tell me by Tuesday, and you didn't tell me I need more advanced planning than this. The the drama free piece there that I love is that you're not making it about her not being a good friend. And you're also not judging her for her values. Like you're saying you have a value about returning communication on time, that's a value you have sounds like, that's not a value for her. Like, you know, she does not, and she just maybe her value is to live life in the moment. And, you know, and and it's, it's knowing that about her, do you want to continue the friendship? And so if she's gonna live in like, or if you do, how can you make that work for you? It's that sort of coming together. And usually what I find is, there's a couple, you know, sometimes just one, but maybe two times of that scenario that we're talking about, like Monday, inviting for Friday and her responding Thursday, and you saying, oh, sorry, didn't work, you know, like, that's your boundary? Like, I'd like to invite you and you let me know, by Tuesday, she lets you know, Thursday. It's like, Okay, well didn't guess, you know, since I asked to know, by Thursday, looks like it won't work this weekend. Try again next time, or what? You know, and then the second time, she might do it again. But usually they just start they're like, oh, okay, Kim is the one I need to know bat. Like, it's like she has she's redefined her manual to 



Susie Pettit 21:56 

giving, giving, giving, then we're treating them that it's okay to tell. And that's, 

Kim Strobel 22:01 

you know, I guess that's kind of the situation I I totally get it if it's like a specific answer that you're needing about a dinner date. But what if it's just more global, like, Hey, I'm always giving it to you. And I don't get to receive that same courtesy back when I want to make a connection with you, or I want to reach out about something and you don't respond then help me Susie? Because I think I need I can just tell this is my work. Right? Like, how would you communicate that? Yeah, 

Susie Pettit 22:33 

well, this is, you know, I guess I would ask you, what do you get from this friendship? And looking at, I call them want matches. So you have a want or a desire for connection in some way. Maybe you you know, maybe you're struggling with something and you're like, wanting her to talk to about this struggle. And yet when you reach out to her, like, Hey, I'm having a problem with my son or I'm having a problem with my dog and did silent, silent, silent and then when she's like, Hey, I'm having a problem with my son, you're like, yep, you know, so it's helpful for you to know she's not that person for you. And so then with that knowledge, like she is not that person for you whether it is it might be disappointing for you and it might be sad for you to hit you know, like oh, I mean this is where we get into trouble in humanity where we're like, oh, it would be nice if they were like yeah, but they're not so right be them and then find another person for that maybe she's a want match for you know going and having fun barbecue with the friends 

Kim Strobel 23:40 

and as long as she's the one hosting and organizing the party she's all in but when it's time to reciprocate and let us hold the party or let us organize the gathering then there's like very little commitment she won't commit but if her having it then she's all over it. I'm super nervous because I don't think she listens to the budget. 

Susie Pettit 24:02 

I was trying to be super vague but let's just go there Well, this will be a good like you're being very kind and open and loving towards her and that's the thing 

Kim Strobel 24:11 

Yeah, I really enjoy these other pieces. It's really nice to have another couple that has like similar interests that we have with our son and and you know, wants to have some same experiences but then I get just really frustrated and I feel like I'm kind of being used when it so then I think like oh that doesn't really feel good. So why am I choosing this? Yeah, 

Susie Pettit 24:37 

and I think that that doesn't feel good is the is sort of the morning light for you like oh, something's going on here. And I like getting curious over furious something I like to say. And instead of getting like furious with her like oh my god, here she is to get curious, like, that's so interesting. Why wouldn't she get that? Like what is it about coming to my House 

that she is not able to commit to or not like. And then in when you're curious, we have more of that open mindset and that like, when we're furious, we make it about oh my god, well, she's not coming over because she thinks that I don't do turkey right, or, you know, whatever we're making up in our head, we're making it very personal. When we get curious, it's that like, oh, maybe she really is a control freak and doesn't like things that have you know, or maybe she has dietary restrictions and doesn't feel comfortable to say something to me, or maybe her husband really is like a closet, a SS. And it doesn't like you know, it like but then our brain, it's not taking it as personal. It's just like more Oh, that 

Kim Strobel 25:38 

does feel better. But how do you how do you find those answers? Well, and so 

Susie Pettit 25:43 

part of it is then you feel ease, like when you're thinking thoughts, you feel a little more ease, and so you're not on an edge. And then you can get a little more clear like, Well, what do I want from this friendship? How big a deal? Is it? If they're not coming over? Are they are you looking for them to come over? Because it's fun for you to host? Yeah, so then maybe you need another family to host. It's that like, maybe they're not the you know, maybe they are the ones that you just sort of had the manual. Like, if we want to go somewhere and have a fun time, that's where we go. And they're comfortable with that. But you thinking, Oh, I need to reciprocate. Well, they don't think that. Like, they're like, Oh, please, no, no, like we I know in your right, to take 

Kim Strobel 26:23 

everything personally and like you start to make these. So this is so good. Because I can see that this like anybody who's listening can be like, you know, shit, I make up the stories in my head. Well, stories in our head. I got like my 

Susie Pettit 26:37 

cast episode this week. I don't know when you're airing this, but it was December 2, or whatever. My podcast episode this week is called it's not about you. 


Oh, wow. I will be listening to that on my run tomorrow. Because Well, we always make it about us 

Susie Pettit 26:51 

make it about us. And our brain goes to the worst case scenario, and very personalized. So it's like this is about Kim. She doesn't like how Kim does versus what I like to do is get into that more open mindset. And I call it alternative explanation. I wish I had a better, like, easier term to remember that. But I asked my brain like, what is an alternative explanation for why she might be saying no, again, that's just sort of like getting into the curious, like, maybe, maybe she can't see so she can't even see my text but but it's just when we're in that sort of like brain state where we're so irritated and taking it personally, it's it's hard to lift out and see things a little calmer. Like we're just sort of in this, 

Kim Strobel 27:36 

I think I have like a like this would be considered like an ant hill what I just described, I have a mountain that I might need to do a private 


session with you 

Kim Strobel 27:46 

on regarding a different manual that that is playing out in my life and causing me bitterness, like use 


our in bitterness. 

Kim Strobel 27:59 

I don't know, I'm a pretty honest person. And you know, I have this like really contagious enthusiasm for life. I, I feel like I live life with a lot of positive feelings. But I also know I'm someone Susie, who holds on to like, bitterness and resentment and makes everything personal. And like, I know what my own work is, at this time of my life. And and it's that 

judgment piece, you know, so. And I think that, like, I like the way that you navigate this, like you said with some grace. And like even when you said to me, maybe maybe she's just a control freak, like even you saying that I could feel my shoulders just kind of like I just created a little bit of space like, hey, yeah, maybe it's not that, you know, she just wants to, like, take from me all the time and not come to our house and not like, maybe she's just a control freak. And, you know, maybe 

Susie Pettit 29:00 

you're looking for isn't it? It's that space, it is just 


a little 

Susie Pettit 29:04 

bit of space, so that our brain can come down. And we can see things. It's like, we shift just, you know, 20 degrees to another side to be like, Oh, let me look at it this way. And and that really is, is what it's all about. It is again, like I did a podcast on Judgment. And it is, you know, looking at like when we're judging when we're pointing out how many fingers are pointing back towards us. And we're, this is a very hard thing for me to understand and often for other people to hear. But if it triggers you, it's about you. Yeah. 


Yeah, it's, 

Susie Pettit 29:38 

it's it's hard to sort of see that. And so when we can get into the curious like, when we're judging, we're usually more in that furious, but when we can get curious and be like, what is it about that? So I'll give you an example back when I was married to my first husband 

and we my relationship was full of Ed didn't realize it at the time but sort of emotional abuse imminent. And it was a very unhappy marriage to be in. And we used to go to parks with, you know, my kids when they were young at that point. And part of the whole thing was I had to be this like selfless mom. And so you know, racing around the park after my kids. And we used to go to this park on Saturdays, and we would see this other couple there. And they would have their little coffees from the store and be reading the papers. 

And their kids would be running around the park and I was such a little judger. Kim, I was like, look at them over there. They are watching their kids. They like what kind of parents they would. And it 


took me a while to be like, 

Susie Pettit 30:36 

Oh my god, girl you want exactly like you are dying to be sitting there with the coffee in the paper. Like you don't want to be manically chasing your child around knowing that your husband's gonna yell at you, if you you know, work right next to him on the slide when he was the son, not the and it is it's so helpful for me to see like, Oh, right. Okay, that's and you know, speaking of women, this is where we get into trouble and sort of cutting other people down. We're like, Oh, look at her in those yoga pants and her tight shirt. It's like, 


yeah, look at her. She's freaking 

Susie Pettit 31:12 

awesome. Or I've heard before you with your, you know, being asked to have a longer skirt when you were teaching and it's Yeah, why can't we be like, go her check her out and what she's showing us for the possibilities for the female body. And, but we get into that, because we have sort of insecurities we get into this, like, internal and it's really um, you know, during this open listeners can see but like this constricting feeling, versus this, you know, just calming and looking, looking for that looking for that space. And, and I guess another thing I want to mention here is this. And we're talking about friends and relationships and, you know, manuals and what we're expecting people do and what, you know what people are actually doing. It is so helpful to not take it personally. And this is where I think of bananas. Oh Susie air with me. I cannot stand bananas. I cannot stand bananas. And so of my five sons, one of them is a type eight enneagram He is the Mr. argue or like he's gonna, and he is always like mall. Bananas are really good for this. And that, like he is just arguing that and I'm like, you can have your banana, I don't need the banana, I am fine. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a banana. I'm just saying I don't want the banana in my life. I want an apple or I want watermelon art. And so if we 

can start to have that sort of the bananas fine, that sort of attitude towards our friends, like your friend is fine. She's a friggin banana. That's why she's gonna be she's not going to come over, you take her for who she is. You can choose to have her in your life, it doesn't mean anything about the banana. Or take that a step more to yourself. So you are getting you know, sort of that cold shoulder from a friend or and it's that like, not taking it personally that there's something wrong with you. It's that like, gosh, darn, I'm awesome. Or I wouldn't say that about a banana. But I like saying that about, you know, peaches are like I'm a frigging you can be the juiciest, right best, most amazing strawberry. And if someone doesn't like strawberries, they're not going to like you. Does that say anything about you? Nothing about you. So that's like that bold, amazing, awesome, Kim. Not everyone's gonna like you. That's about them. Like set them free. More stress, you and your family and people who love frickin strawberries. 


I love that 

Kim Strobel 33:42 

I love when you say anything you judge is is a reflection of your own insecurity. Yeah, right. 

Susie Pettit 33:50 


Kim Strobel 33:50 

So for my listeners, because I am a big person Susie, I your I am and I know this about myself, I I have Gabrielle Bernstein's judgment. You know, it's again, it's like I have these own kind of blocks that I'm working on beating down a little bit and removing but it's like, I even know what you say that any anything. Anytime you're judging another person, right? Like, okay, I'll give you an example. And maybe I like when when I actually have you apply this to me because I think it makes my listeners be able to understand 

Susie Pettit 34:30 

it like that part couple that poor part couple. Yeah, 



Kim Strobel 34:38 

I feel bad, um, that I really can't stand and this is gonna sound terrible. And to the people who are listening, they're gonna be like, but please give me some grace here because I'm just stating a vulnerability that I have. Okay, people who are like, super quiet and like really bashful. Like afraid to like speak or use their voice or you know they just are they're they're mild and meek and submissive and look at me Susie you can even see like my face like getting your life even little looks on it right? I those people really get on my nerves Susie, like I just inherently and this is gonna sound bad but my my listeners know I'm real. I associate them with being weak and weak people drive me crazy. Okay, they drive me crazy. I'm just like, would you just speak 


up? Would you just put your fist 

Kim Strobel 35:41 

first foot forward? Would you quit being a coward all the time? Like, in here's what I know about that. And I want you to tell me if you think I'm right. So after doing this work on myself, when I suffer with panic disorder, and I struggled to do the easiest of things, like, you know, drive five minutes to the health club or go to Walmart or, you know, pick up my niece and driver an hour and a half like I you know, when I'm suffering with panic disorder, I am not comfortable doing any of that. And I feel weak and disgraceful. And my confidence levels just drop. And I think like, you are so weak and wimpy Kim like you can't even do the simplest of things that normal adults can do. And I have over the years despised that weak part of myself. So are you saying like, Is that the reason I get triggered by it? Susie? 


I mean, I was 

Susie Pettit 36:36 

gonna ask you kindly like, Is there a spot in your past where maybe you've been weak? Or you haven't used your voice? Or you've been bashful? Or maybe you've worn longer skirts, instead of saying, Oh, no, I'm wearing my skirts on what the you know, that sort of thing, all that shit, all that shit. And that's when we see these other people. And it reminds us, I mean, I think there are two pieces there. It reminds us of who we were, or who we are still sort of in our not so strong moments. And that is a, you know, for me, I'm like, Okay, what can I learn from my judgment? Well, that's a great area to work on that inner talk, like, Why the heck is that woman beating herself up in her head? for how you know? And so that's sort of that like, okay, let's look there, are you weak Are you being kind, you know, it's this, you know, relaxing into the state that you are, and that I know that you have done some work on there. So that would be exactly that piece there. And then also, because judgment doesn't feel good, like when you are judging, I mean, watch your fits, like we get our faces. And it feels like if you feel your chest when you're judging, you're just you feel like you just ate dirt. And it's just like, it doesn't feel good. And so that is again, when we can get into that more open or curious or empathetic mindset and be like, I wonder why I love asking myself, I wonder why she's not speaking up. Or I wonder why she's, she's being so you know, bashful and, and see it more. Like, just sort of sad, like, oh, that poor woman, I know what that feels like. or, or maybe we don't, but it's this. I know, for myself, when I hear people not, I did a lot of I'm sorry, I keep like half finishing my sentence. But I did a lot of work with my biological family and standing up to my parents and setting boundaries and I now do not, I do not have a relationship with them. I do not speak with them I have I feel wonderfully at peace with them and send them love and really, I'm so grateful for the parents they were to make me and the woman I am However, I do not have any sort of interaction with them. And when I hear of other people continuing in emotionally or verbally abusive relationships just because of the manuals they have about what a good daughter should do, I still am like, I get triggered and I get that like come on because I know my mind so me feeling triggered is a feeling again, and my feeling comes from my thought and I know the thought I'm thinking one of the thoughts is like come on, you speaking up would make this would have made this easier for me like if more people sort of spoke up and stood in their truth and that would make it easier for me and and the other Susie's are out there, you know, managing their relationships and the other you know, whatever sort of so there is a piece of that that when people are not speaking up if it does trigger something for us in our past like you being you know, thinking that you're weak or think yes, like come on, let's all rise together people like I'm but we cannot drag these other people along their spiritual journey and I know Gastineau Bernstein speaks of that. Like we're all on our own freakin journey. I didn't get to mine until the late 30s. It's possible I ran across someone at 26 who was like, Oh my gosh, what are you doing? Like speak up to that man that you don't even love? Why are you marrying him or you know, like But I was not able to hear it at that point that was not part of my spiritual journey. And 

it's that, like, everyone's sort of on their path. And when we can get more compassionate and back to the message where we sort of started with with your mother that like, I was doing the best they can. 

Kim Strobel 40:15 

I was, yeah, like she has a social script, basically. Sometimes I think my boldness makes her nervous. Oh, for sure. 

Susie Pettit 40:23 

Because her rules are like, Oh, no, you do not rock the boat. And it's, you know, 

Kim Strobel 40:29 

protective mechanism. 

Susie Pettit 40:30 

Yeah. And so she's thinking she's protecting you, but you're also triggering her because it's that like, oh, wow, you are sort of this, this mirror for her for what she won't do. Like night eating up to whomever the mailman who's always leaving the mail on the stoop instead of putting it through anything? Because I'd upset him. It's like, Oh, my gosh, if he gets upset, that's because his thoughts, maybe he's upset because he's like, someone found out I'm not doing my job. Well, 

Kim Strobel 40:59 

I don't think I said this during the podcast. But I was telling Susie beforehand and tell me if I did that I talked about my mom and her haircuts during the night. So I was telling Susie, that my mom and I told my mom recently that this is a that she's a chapter in the book that I'm writing about her haircut, because she has gone to the same woman for 15 years, and my mom wants her hair stacked in the back. She just wants a nice little stacked back part of her hair. And for 15 years, for whatever reason, this woman can't do it. And so I keep like telling my mom, like, why won't you go to someone else? Like, if you really want your hair to be stacked at the back? Why won't you and she's like, Oh, I could never do that. Like I would never want to hurt such and such as feelings. And I'm like, so my mom's been willing to endure 15 years of bad haircuts because her manual, right, Suzy, her manual says, You What, what is her manual? Say, 



Kim Strobel 41:56 

what do you think it says, 

Susie Pettit 41:57 

Well, you don't speak up. You don't rock the boat. I mean, and she and a good hair person wouldn't like a good hair. Client wouldn't say that to the hairdresser. This gets back to that sort of enabling piece because your Mom, what's interesting here is she's selling that hairdresser short, like she must have a belief that the hairdresser can't do her hair the way she wants her to like, because if she thought, Oh, the hairdresser could do that my hair the way I want it. She might be more open to asking this woman and it's it's this is what we do in our relationships. Like, we're not asking for different treatment, and then we're getting pissy because of what we're tolerating. But if we're tolerating it, then you know people treat us like this hairdressers, probably your mom is probably like great haircuts. So why would Sally have the thought like, Oh, she must be lying to me. I mean, that's what I'm talking about the people pleaser and people deceiver, like your mom. And 

Kim Strobel 42:53 

I'm giggling because like loud, yesterday was a Tuesday because we're recording on a Wednesday and I, I am not like a big drinker. But I had had a really bad day and my husband and I went to eat and we ordered I ordered a Moscow Mule, and he ordered a beer and his beer tasted like vinegar. He said, Oh, and he kept drinking it. And I was like, so it's the same thing. I was like, Scott, just tell him He's like, No, I'm not going to tell them. It's okay. Well, I couldn't stand it. I was like, Emma, the waitress, I was like, just so you know, he drank three fourths of this beer that tastes because like they needed to know that, you know. And so that's 

Susie Pettit 43:30 

part of it. This is part of where I'm like if all of us can just sort of stand in are not sort of, but if we stand in our truth, a little more, like why are we tolerating bad haircuts and vinegary 

beer? For the bad haircut? If your mom says something, she's allowing this woman to up her craft, maybe the woman's like, Oh my gosh, I never knew you want stacked hair in the back or I thought this is what she wanted. And so maybe the woman watches a YouTube video or goes to some hair training. Or maybe the woman is like, yeah, then and maybe she burst out crying. But that's where we look at alternative explanation. She's probably not going to. She might be like, oh, any. This is where we deliver things with kindness and grace to it's not like your mom is like, this sucks. I've had 15 years of it's more like, Oh, do you think that you could make it look more like this? And she brings in a picture and you know, show something or your husband? How funny it's that like, Oh my goodness, ask for what you like, you matter your guess your answer matters. What if him saying something gets them to re tap the keg and it saves you know, 30 other people from having it's this. We're allowed. It's not saying Emma, you are such a filthy waitress. I can't believe you brought me in. It's like, hey, thought you should know this beer has vinegar in it, you know, and, yeah, 

Kim Strobel 44:52 

I'm just giggling because it's like this 

Susie Pettit 44:56 

all the time. It is. 

Kim Strobel 44:58 

It's this complete. Crazy stuff that we do. And for my listeners, I know right now that you can identify you identify something like this, that you're, you're not being honest about in life and you're deceiving other people, because then you won't stand up for yourself and 

say that you matter. And so, I've actually I just made some notes here, Susie, I think that I'm going to have to do an extensive research for one of the chapters in my book that's going to need to be called, like this topic right here, you know, boundaries, manuals, and kindness and grace, I 

Susie Pettit 45:34 

mean, boundaries, manuals and expectations. I think they all sort of go because it's our expectations for what we think other people should do. Like, whenever we're saying should like my mother should or the hairdresser. Or the bartender should somehow know that this beer is vinegary, you know, or the waiter should know I want ketchup. And so I'm 

not going to all that nonsense is very helpful. Like, that's a great chapter. And then I guess just for the listeners, if, if they hear themselves saying that they are, you know, making an excuse in their head that they're not doing something because it'll hurt someone else's feelings. That is a great like, you know, as a coach, I'm like, red flag, okay. Hold on. That's not how we work. Like, we have thoughts that create our feeling circumstances don't create our feelings, thoughts, create our feelings. And this is something that we are not taught in school. In fact, we're taught that circumstances create our feelings. So we are you know, I take Johnny's CRAN, and my teacher will and Johnny starts crying. My teacher will say, Susie, you made Johnny cry, because you took his cramp. Okay, no, I'm me taking the cream might have influenced that. But Johnny's crying because of his thoughts about the maybe he's thinking, Oh, my gosh, I'm so sad. I can't finish my drawing. And he's crying. Okay, well, then I did influence that. Maybe he's thinking, Oh, thank God, I'm crying with joy. Now I get to go out to recess. And he's crying tears like 


he could be 

Susie Pettit 47:01 

his feelings are based on the thoughts that he's thinking, not on my actions, we influence people. But we get into a lot of trouble when we think those external circumstances are going to create our feelings. And then we get into even more trouble when we think that we somehow can control other people's feelings like I and and we, we do other people are very open to letting us do this. So this like, you know, I control my mom's happiness that me calling her every Sunday makes her happy. Well, it is her thought maybe she's thinking I have a really good daughter, I've been a good mom, my daughter loves me. So she's thinking, a thought that makes her feel loved. She also could think that thought, Oh, my God, I've like totally over manipulated my daughter, and she feels a lot of stress and, you know, whatever. But it is it is. Often the other person is very happy to hand over their emotional management to someone else other than them like, yeah, you're the reason why I got upset, or you're the reason? And it's like, No, no, no, we can all do it ourselves. And everyone around us a lot of good when we sort of stand in that emotional power of my thoughts create my feelings. 

Kim Strobel 48:07 

Yeah, that is so powerful. Oh my gosh, we could have gone in and there were so many times during this conversation, we could have even gone further. Because so much of 

what you said is just so dang relevant, I think to us as, as human beings, you know, walking this trajectory of life and trying to navigate it from a place of, you know, deep humanity, but also from a place of being able to stand in our truth because I believe you are so right, that that bitterness and that sourness comes from us not being able to do that. 

Susie Pettit 48:48 

Well, and it's the pathway to joy, like your podcast says, like this finding joy when you are not giving other people control over our emotions. And when we're standing and being truthful with ourselves. That is that foundation of living a life we love and finding the joy and not, you know, suffering with a bad haircut every friggin time you look in the mirror. Exactly. 

Kim Strobel 49:11 

Mary Jo, if you're listening, you need to know we love you and our bad hair cut, 

Susie Pettit 49:18 

but we understand why you haven't spoken up that is very my understand. Yeah. Amen. And at the same time, we can move forward. And I guess that is that is sort of the action step for listeners is to just look where they can take small steps, you know, so when we're talking about your neighbor to just add the small step of saying please get back to me by Tuesday or, you know, get a little more specific, speaking up not thinking they can read our minds, and thinking of where we're judging and what we might learn from that about ourselves. Like getting away from always pointing the finger out and turning back towards ourselves I love one of the things Oprah says over and over again is that we are here Unlike to learn about ourselves, and that if we can look at our experiences, not with this judgment and irritation and resentment, but more with the question of like, what can I learn from this? What does this teach me? That's where we feel much calmer and find that joy. 

Kim Strobel 50:16 

I love that. I love that. Well, I want to end this episode by asking you, Susie, what is one thing that you're currently doing in your life to find more joy? 

Susie Pettit 50:30 

I'm like, all my days. Well, you know what, one of the things that I'm really centering on right now is meditating for at least three minutes a day. Because I, I have an very active brain. And I started back in 2016. That was a gift I gave myself for my birthday to meditate every day. And I said one minute, and I got so that I was doing, you know, a minute a day for that year no matter what, and then 20 minutes a day. But recently, I have looked for the excuse not to and I know it is one of the ways that I can remain calm and centered, and able to see experiences without as much reactivity. Like it literally changes my brain and allows me to not be as jumpy and not be as reactive and be a much better mother and wife. And I love that. 

Kim Strobel 51:17 

Yeah. And that's an important piece, 


I believe, nearly working. Yeah, 

Kim Strobel 51:22 

thank you so much. All of this, my gosh, you are just a wealth of knowledge. And I can imagine what a gift it is that you give to others through your ability to really navigate some of these hard things that we have to deal with. But to come out on the other side with a little more self compassion towards ourselves and others. Suzy, where can people connect with you? 

Susie Pettit 51:48 

Well, I would love it if people could check out my podcast because there were so many times here in this this episode where we were talking about, you know, comparison, I have a podcast on comparison and talking about I have a podcast on manuals, I have a podcast on boundaries, I have a podcast on expectation. So just that's it B slash iTunes, or I guess subscribe, you're gonna find whatever platform they listen to. Yeah, and and then I send out a weekly newsletter, where I have all my free goodies and they can so that's it SMB slash newsletter. 

Kim Strobel 52:24 

Okay, I will drop both of those links in the show notes so that people can look them up and rest assured when Kim Strobel takes her 10 mile run tomorrow morning, she will be listening to your show your podcasts. 

Susie Pettit 52:38 

Yeah, and I would love to hear from your listeners. Like if something they had a big takeaway. I know I'll comment on your Instagram page or my Instagram you notice 

Kim Strobel 52:45 

Yeah, that's what we love. We love feedback we love when they Yeah, again insight because like, like, Is anybody listening to this? And then my IT person will be like Kim, you know, 1600 people downloaded this episode. And I'm like, well, where are you people? I need you people over hopping in the she finds joy Facebook to tell me or matter. Leaving me a review. Like I want to know my message matters. Yeah, 

Susie Pettit 53:09 

no giving Kim that review today and just saying wow, I love that episode with Suzy that would be wonderful. On your Instagram just somehow because that feedback does matter. 

Kim Strobel 53:20 

It does. It does. And we'll drop all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much, Susie for being here. 

Susie Pettit 53:25 

Thank you. 

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